Franklin-Mason v. Johnson

District of Columbia, dcd-1:2003-cv-00945

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P 09/10 TH-01-Case 1:031CV-00945-JEBOrDocument 113-1..Filęd 98/30/16 Page 1 of 25 U.S. Office of Personnel REQUESI PUR SUNNCLAVITUN ago 02 Management FPM Supp. 295-33. Subch. 3 ALL www 16304 BARROW Nelson TEX 9152 su NS DSCNOCAUTUBE 1. Actions Requested Please check one of the following: 2. Request Number Optional Retirement V Voluntary Early Retirement Resignation 3. For Additional Information Call (Name and Telephone Numbers Proposed Ekane Date - CAPI HERB 6855906 5. Action Requested By (typed Name, Titia, Signature, and Request Date) 6. Action Authorized By (Typed Name, Title, Signature, and Concurrence Date S CART Mike HERR 1. Name (Lest. First, Allddie) 12 SomGarrim 12 Date of Birth 4. Effective Date RANKliN MASON R 61304 No. FIRSACTIONS S-A Code 1 5-A. Nature of Action 16-A 6-B. Nature of Action Code 5-C Code 5-0. Legal Authority 8-C. 6-D. Legal Authority Codo 5-E. Code 5-F. Legal Authonty 6-F. Legal Authority Code 7. FROM: Position Title and Number 15. TO: Position Title and Number Senior Financial Analyst/ ADUISOR a Pay Per 9Orc Corto 10 Gadecka 11.Sepapie 12 Toa Satry 13 Paybles BRAT 17.0rcode 1a Gadeabe 19 po pete Ta Toka Scary 21. Paytes $$ | 60 | 13 12A, Basic Pay 123lold | 12C Ad BecPay | 12D. Other Pay 20A, Basic PayTZE LocyAd 20 Ad PacPay 200. Other Pay wwwwwwwwwwwww w www www w 6-E RSS RRRR WA 14. Name and Location of Position's Organization 22. Nama and Location of postion's Organization NFAG Msc Wash DC 20398 SIDE 23. Veterans Preference 24. Tenure 2. Apery Use 26. Votorans Preferance for AIF 1 - None 3-10 Pontos by S-10Pitcher 12- 5-Point 4-10Proposte 6-10Ricaret AL Bam Boden YES NO 27. FEGU 28. Annuitant Indicator 29. Pay Rate Determinant METAL. . AL BE Rex To 24. Tenure Nere 2000 Wwwwwww 30. Retirement Plan 31. Service Comp Data (Love) 32. Work Schedule 33. Part-Time Hours Por Biweekly Day Pedod POSITIONIDATATLARI 34. Position Occupied 1.Corpacia Suc. 3-SES General 26 Sonic ASES. Career 38. Duty Station Code N DA ESCOLA 31. Service Camp Dato (Level 1 36. Appropriation Code E-Exempt LA Nanexomat 39. Duty Station (City - County - State or Overseas Location) 37. Bargaining Unit Status 40 Agency Data 45 Eurostoral Lava T 16 Year Cage Alained 47. Pacienc Daciane 48. Functional Class 50. Veterans Status | 51. Supervisay Sus 49. Citizenship 1-USA 6-Other SECNE 1. Office Function Initials/Signature Micel Function Initials/Signature Date VARAMEWO ......... ... wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww w ww Signature Approval Date RSS 2 Acordatlanty that the informationebodanthis bomis auratus and that the proposed adonis ampknoe with stambory requirements CONTINUED ON REVERSE SIDE 52.419 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT Editions Prior to 7191 Are Nat Usable after 6/30/93 NSN 7540-01-333-6239 OVER ALL-STATE LEGAL P.10/10 JUN-01-5. PART DEREmätkebrettetin kotiče (Nolo to Supervisors: Do you know of additional or conflicting reasons for employee's resignatorvretirement? YES NO "YES", please state these facts on a separate sheet and attach to SF 52) REN. www PARIB.Emaxed Regio Retiremena RET E NSIERRA Privacy Act Statement You are requested to furnish a speciic reason for your resignation or retirement and regulations with regard to employment of individuals in the Federal servica and their a forwarding address. Your reason may be considered in any future decision regarding records, while section 8506 requires agencies to furnish the specific reason for your re-employment in the Federal service and may also be used to determine your laminaton for Federal service to the secretary of Labor or a State agency in conneo eligibility for unemployment compensation benefits. Your forwarding address will be 'on with administration of unemployment componsation programs. used primanly to mail you copies of any documents you should have or any pay or compensation to which you are entitled. The fumighing of this information is voluntary, however, failure to provide it may result in your not receiving (1) your copies of those documents you should have; (2) pay This Infomation is requested under authorty of sections 301, 3301, and 8506 of its or other compensation due you, and (3) any unemployment comensation benefits 5, U.S. Code, Sections 301 and 3301 authonze OPM and agencies to issue which you may be entded. 1. Reasons for Resignation/Retirement (NOTE: Your roasons are used in detemining possible unemployment benefits. Please be specific and avoid generalizations. Your resignation/ratire ment is effective at the end of the day- midnight - unless you specify otherwise.) REASON FOR RESIGNATION RETIREMENT. Selbelow EMPLOYMENT STATEMENT - I am accepting a monetary incentive to voluntarily separate from employment at M S C Heats. I understand that after I indicate my decision to voluntarily separate by signing this form, I will continue working through ane 31000ut I cannot revoke this decision. I understand that if I accept reemployment with the Federal government (including non-appropriated fund activities and personal services contracts) within 5 years after separation with a pay incentivo, I must repay the separation pay to the Defense agency that paid it. I understand that repayment can be waived only if I possess unique abilities and am the only fully qualiñed applicant for the position being filled. I further underst and that, by making this decision to voluntarily separate, I will be ineligible for reemployment by any Department of Defonse installation (including non-appropriated fund activities and personal services contracts) for a period of twelve months following separation with an incentive, except as approved by the Assistant Secretary of the Navy on a case-by-case basis. I understand, also, that if I receive a monetary incentive to voluntarily separate and later file an application for disability retirement, which is approved, I will be required by the Department of Navy to repay the separation incentive. Similarly, if I am receiving Federal Employees Compensation Act (FECA) payments from the Office of Worker's Compensation Programs, my FECA payments may, in some circumstances, be offset by the amount equivalent to the separation incentive payment My decision to fetire/resign (circle one) is voluntary and has.not been coerced. If I am not selected to receive a separation incentive, I will not be bound to retire/resigo Employee's Retirement W 25K incentive Constructive Pischarge iferalidtion and Breach of coNTRACH (Signature) (Date) 6120w e 2 /04 2 Electro Dette 3. Your Signature Date signed 5 Forvarding AddressNumhar Sitaat City State Zip Codal 6/3/04 h PARTFS Romaiksitársa 16/2/041 ARTEMENT V. S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 1993 0 - 151-310 TOTAL P.10 5 Michael C. Herb Page 200 of MSC to do so because of the statements that I i got from her, and I suspect some of them were yours as well as her medical caretaker that I 4 don't know the name of off the top of my head. But in all of those, there seemed to 7 8 be issue with MSC. And when you have a situation where an employer has had a history of problems within that, regardless of what the derivation of those problems were, one of the best ways to do it is to get in a new organization and that way you're assured of an objective fresh start. Now, obviously that -- that's not an easy thing to do in government service because you 14 have to get another agency to take the person, but that was pretty much -- my position was I felt it 17 was best that if we could do that, that would be in everybody's best interest. 2. Okay. Just for the record, when you say she, you mean Ms. Franklin-Mason? I think you said she earlier in your response. You were talking about she indicated that it would be -- 22 Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 201 A. Oh, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. She told me on a number of occasions that she wanted to be somewhere else. (Whereupon, Ms. Lynda Cevallos Ô 000 v ac AW NA entered the deposition proceedings.) THE WITNESS: And I'd even asked her. I said, have you applied for other positions. BY MS. MCKINNEY: 0. What was the position of Chuck Schoen 11 and Marva -- A. Riley. -- Riley? A. As I understand it, they went out 15 within the government service system -- and I'm not all that familiar with it -- and did a search for possible employment elsewhere. And what was the result of that Q. search? A. I would assume negative. At least they told me it was negative, that they were 22 not -- they made some calls and they could not get Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 202 1 another agency to accept the transfer. They first have to look for a vacant 3 billet. I mean, if you don't have a billet, then 4 there's nothing you can do. Q. So were they unable to find a vacant 6 billet? Was that the gist of it? A. I can't -- I can't answer the specifics of what they did. e. Okay. You have to talk to them about that. 13 Q. Did Chuck Schoen and Marva Riley want to find a transfer? A. I think if they could, they would have, and I believe that. Again, I don't know 15 what they did or what energy they expended on it. But I believe if they could have, they would have. Q. How long did these efforts go on? A. I really can't answer that. I'm sure a few months. I mean, these things take a long 20 time. I would say -- yeah, I don't know. Months, I'm sure. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 203 Was the issue ever revisited? Did they ever look into trying to find another transfer or look into whether transfers were available at another time? A. I can't really answer that. Again, you'd have to talk to them about it. (Whereupon, Ms. Roxann Franklin-Mason and Mr. Douglas Mason entered the deposition proceedings.) BY MS. MCKINNEY: Did the issue of transfer ever come up again after this initial time? A. Yeah. I know we've talked -- R.J. and 15 I talked about it from time to time. And I 16 prodded the system and said, are we still looking and yeah, we're still looking. And so yes, it did come up. But 19 again, I'm not involved in that side; so I don't know exactly -- I can't tell you who they contacted or how they did that. Q. I'm sorry. When you said you prodded Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 204 1 the system, you mean HR? A. Yeah. I called Chuck and said, hey, Chuck, do you have any progress on this end. Q. Okay. How often did that happen after the initial time? A. I -- maybe once, twice in the first six months. I mean, we talked about it a lot initially; so probably very regularly in the first 30 days. And then probably twice or so in the next six months. 12 Q. And in the next six months after that, was it ever brought up or discussed again? A. Well, after the first six months is when we got into this PD; so my goal was to get on track with this particular PD. And then once that occurred, you know, 17 when we got -- when I started to get the -- you 18 know, where she wouldn't do these things, and then I worked with HR and said, okay, what's my course 21 of action here. So the transfer wasn't on the -- at least on my plate at that point in time. Q. Okay. By this PD, you mean the -- Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 205 -- the second one in -- -- Exhibit Number 9? Nine, yes. Q... All right. We talked about that we met probably in 2002 September or October; so this PD was approximately a year later? 6 A. Uh-huh. Q. Is that correct? A. Uh-huh. MR. HAYNES: You need to answer yes or 11 no. THE WITNESS: I'm verifying it first. MR. HAYNES: Okay. THE WITNESS: Let's see, what is the date on this? About six months because this was done in May, June of 03 and that was November of 02. BY MS. MCKINNEY: 0. Right. But she didn't get this until September of 2003, almost a year later. If you look at page 1 of deposition Exhibit Number 9, your notes to R.J. -- 22 Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb 1 2 3 4 Page 206 A. Okay, okay, okay. Yes. So just under a year, okay. Q. All right. So you're saying that in the subsequent six months, the issue of transfer never came up? A. Well, no. I said after the first meeting, okay, we talked about it a lot in that first 30 days; then in the subsequent six or so months, probably once or twice after that. Q. Right. But what I'm talking about is that since this is a year -- 9 A. Uh-huh. -- the second half of the year, it 14 didn't come up? During the second half of the year, the issue didn't come up of the transfer? 16 A. It didn't -- I guess that's a no. Q. Okay. How often did it come up in the second half of the year? Like I said, it probably didn't. Okay. It didn't come up? No. A. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb I'm sorry. Page 207 Just the record is not clear Okay. Q. -- and maybe I'm just -- Okay. Yes or no, did the issue of transferring Ms. Franklin-Mason come up in the second half of the year? A. And by the second half of the year, 10 you mean between what and what? Q. From, I guess, approximately January of 2003, February 2003. A. I -- in my recollection, it was talked about up until the time I started to draft this. 14 Now even though I didn't present it, we started to work -- I started to work on it in the June, July 19 20 time frame of 03, okay. So probably from June, July 03 to the date of this, which is September, probably didn't talk transfer that much during that time frame. Q. Okay. So if I understand you correctly -- and, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to 22 Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 208 1 clarify for the record. A. Yeah. N 0. The first 30 days, it came up w A 0 frequently, the issue of the transfer? A. Well, because that's because we -- that's when they did the advertisement and tried 0 1 to arrange a transfer, correct. 0 0 5 Okay. And then that would have been approximately November or December of 2002 until approximately June, July of 2003, it came up maybe once or twice; is that correct? A. Yeah. Every couple of months, I would say, do we have any leads or any ideas. And as I understood it, they put an advertisement out and T 15 looked for potentials, and they got a negative 16 response on those. Q. Okay. And then in June or July, the performance appraisal, deposition Exhibit Number 9, came up and so the issue was dropped at that 19 point? A. Well, in my mind it was, okay. I 22 don't know what R.J. did. I mean, she can pursue Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 209 1 looking for a vacancy somewhere else. Q. No. I'm talking about what the agency did, okay, in terms of -- A. I don't know what the agency did. I just know what I did. Q. Okay. Do you know what HR did on that issue? A. I can't answer that. Q. For the record, Ms. Franklin-Mason and 11 her husband, Mr. Mason, reentered the conference room. A. Can I make one clarification point? room. After my initial interface with Ni and that group 14 on potential for transfer, I didn't really see it as my position any more because if she wanted a transfer, she can go down and talk with them and work that from her angle. And I just kind of assumed, if she wanted to, she would do that. Q. Okay. I'm talking about what the 21 agency's efforts were and what the agency did because -- A. I didn't follow up on that; so that I Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb i 2 Page 210 can't answer. I know they worked it hard for a while. I don't know how long. I also note there was -- there was 4 some correspondence between R.J. and I'm not sure if it was Marva or someone in HR about a resume. But I don't know what the date of that was; so 7 8 that would answer part of that question. But I just don't remember the dates there. 10 Q. Were you involved in that, that discussion about the resume? A. I was -- I was in for it on the e-mail, but that was it. Q. All right. Ms. Franklin-Mason, would she have been able to transfer to another agency 12 or another division of the Navy without a 16 performance evaluation? A. Probably not. I can't answer that for sure. I think that was probably one of the problems so they would have had to do an agreement 20 to do that. But again, I'm not that familiar with the HR rules so -- Q. Based on your understanding of, you Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 211 know, employees seeking a position, transferring and so forth, is it very difficult to do without a current performance evaluation? 3 MR. HAYNES: Objection as to the lack of foundation. BY MS. MCKINNEY: You can answer the question. A. Again, I'm not that familiar with the HR rules. Q. . Okay. In your opinion, based on your experiences in federal government and as a manager, would it be difficult for an employee to transfer without a current performance evaluation? A. I'm sure there would be some questions. MR. HAYNES: Well, let me say that I'm objecting again to a lack of foundation. 17 BY MS. MCKINNEY: Q. Okay. But you can answer the question. You're saying what again? A. I'm sure it would cause questions, but 22 they could be answered. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 212 Q. Right. But they would cause 2 questions; so it would have to be answered? A. Yeah. So it would be difficult? MR. HAYNES: Objection as to lack of foundation. THE WITNESS: I wouldn't call it difficult. BY MS. MCKINNEY: What would you call it? A. I'd just call it a complication. Q. It would be complicated for an employee to transfer without a current performance appraisal? MR. HAYNES: Objection. Lack of foundation. I'm not THE WITNESS: I don't know. that familiar with the system. BY MS. MCKINNEY: Q. Would you hire someone who didn't have 21 a current performance appraisal? A. If I had a good reason. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 213 0. What would be a good reason? A. If the agency or that person could show me why there was a gap. Q. And what would be a good reason for © 600 v ac AW NA having a gap? A. It could be any number. Q. Have you ever encountered that situation before? A. Well, pretty much I just deal with -- well, yeah, with sailors. 10 Q. Okay. But we're talking about the civilian force. Have you ever encountered that with a civilian force? MR. HAYNES: Lack of foundation. 14 15 Again, I object. BY MS. MCKINNEY: You can answer the question. A. I've had civilians under my employ who have had gaps in their evaluation. I've never been given a record and said hire this person when there's gaps. I just never came across that. Q. I'm sorry. You said you had people Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb 1 Page 214 under your supervision who had gaps? A. I've had. Q. Okay. But you've never been in a situation where you had to accept someone or take a position -- A. That's correct. -- fill a position with someone who 8 11 had a gap? That's correct, other than a sailor. Q. Okay. A. By and large, I don't dwell on past things. I look at future and present. This is kind of the person I am. Q. All right. We talked a little bit earlier about the leave issues with Ms. Franklin-Mason. 15 You mentioned that she was in the beginning out frequently on leave; is that correct? A. Correct. (The following transcript portion is confidential and under the Protective Order.) 22 Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Standard Form 52 US. Office of Personnel Management REQUEST FOR PERSONNEL ACTION FPM Supp. 296-33, Subch. 3 PART A - Requesting Office (Also complete Part 8, toms 1. 7-22, 32, 33, 36, and 39.) 1 Actions Requested 12 Request Number Retirement (Voluntary) 3. For Additional Information Call (Name and Telephone Number) 4. Proposed Effective Date Capt Herb, (202) 685-5906 5. Action Requested By (Typed Name, Tide, Signature, and equest Date) 6 Action Authorized By (Typed Name, Tillg, Signature, and Concurrence Date) T HEBB E 61104 BARRON NELSON Deputy NFAF Program Manager Program Manager y PART B For Preparati 0 (Use only codes in FPM Supplement 292-1. Show all dates in month-day-year order) 1. Name (Last First Middle) 12. Social Security Number 1 3. Date of Birth 4. Effective Date FRANKLIN-MASON, ROXANN J. FIRST ACTION SECOND ACTION 5-4 Code 5-B. Nature of Action 6.A. Code 6-B. Nature of Action 5-C Code 5-D. Legal Authonty 6-C Code 6-D. Legal Authority 5-E Code 5-F. Legal Authority 6-E. Code 76-F. Legal Authority 7. FROM: Position Title and Number 15. TO: Position Title and Number Senior Financial Analyst/Advisor Then you 10. Gade or level 205 R 1 00 Save T19 SAP ? RART 2 Ton Salary Aw To Pay GS 0501 13 Local 200 NG BOCA 06 LOCO 23 Other Oy 14. Name and Location of Position's Organization 22 Name and Location of Position's Organization Naval Fleet Auxil Force Program Manager (PMI) Military Sealift Command Washington, DC 20398 EMPLOYEE DAT 26. Veterans Preference to RF 19None YES 2. $ Point 27. FEGLI 28Annuitant Indicator 29. Pay Rate Determinant 30. Retirement Plan 31. Service Comp. Date (Leave) 32 Work Schedule 33. Part-Time Hours Per I l Pay Panod Papa Francis NAIME | 35. FLSA Category 36. Appropriation Code 37. Bargaining Unit Status 34. Position Occupied 11-Condive Sorv.co 2-Excepted Sercement 38. Duty Station Code 3 SES General 4. SES Career Reserved NONEN 39. Duty Station on County State or Owncas Land S AR 40. Agency Data 42. 45. Education Level 46. Year Degree Attained 47. Academic Discipline 48. Fumotional Class 49. Ctizenship 50. Veterans Status 51. Supervisory Status PART C - Reviews and Approvals (Not to be used by requesting owice.) 1. Office/function Initials/Signature Date Ottice/function Initials/Signature Date compliance with statutory and regulatory requirements CONTINUED ON REVERSE SIDE Dons Prior to 7/91 Are Not Usable Aner 630/93 5 SF 52 (Back) PART D - Remarks by Requesting Office (Note to Supervisors: Do you know of additional or conflicting reasons for the employee's resignation/retiremont? 1 "YES", please state these facts on a separate sheet and attach to SF 52.) YES servicios to sed to PART E - Employee Resignation/Retirement Privacy Act Statement You are requested to furnish a spocific reason for your resignation or retirement and agencies to issue regulations with regard to employment individuals in the Federal a forwarding address. Your reason may be considered in any future decision service and their records, while section 8506 requires agencies to furnish the regarding your re-employment in the Federal service and may also be used to specific reason for termination of Federal service to the Secretary of Labor or a State determine your eligibility for unemployment compensation benefits Your forwarding agency in connection with administration of unemployment compensation programs address will be used primarily to mail you copies of any documents you should have The furishing of this information is voluntary; however, failure to provide it may result or any pay or compensation to which you are entitled. in your not receiving: (1) your copies of those documents you should have; (2) pay or This information is requested under authority of sections 301, 3301, and 8506 of titio other compensation due you; and (3) any unemployment compensation benefits to 5. US, Code. Sections 301, 3301 authorize OPM and which you may be entitled. 1. Reasons for Resignation/Retirement (NOTE: Your reasons are used in determining possible unemployment benefits. Please be specific and avoid generalizations. Your resignation retirement is effective at the end of the day - midnight - unless you specify otherwise.) & Employee's Retirement - Constructive Discharge due to harrassment Retaliation (125K incentius and Breach of Cowtract 2. Elective Date 3. Your Signature 4. Date Signed 5. Forwarding Address Nurnber, Street, City, State, Zip Codei balt te 1612/05 L PART F - Remarks for SF 50 00000000000 5 Michael C. Herb 1 Page 81 Herb deposition Exhibit Number 1, a declaration of Captain Michael Herb. Do you recognize this document? A. Yes. Q. For the record, this declaration of 6 7 Captain Michael Herb does not have the attachment or the exhibits to it. Aside from the fact that this does not have the exhibits, is this the document that you mentioned earlier that you reviewed in connection with your deposition earlier today? A. Yes. Q. All right. Is everything in your 14 declaration true and accurate to the best of your knowledge? 15 A. Yes. Q. Are there any modifications or changes 18 you would make to the declaration? A. No. Q. Okay. Do you remember a meeting about a year and a half ago when Ms. Franklin-Mason 22 returned to work from an illness? I was present, Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT ALL-STATE LEGAL MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 82 counsel for the agency was present, as well as her 1 husband. Do you remember that meeting? 000 va uw A. Yes. And Ms. Riley from HR at the academy or at the MSC was also there. Q. Yes. Right. What was the purpose of that meeting? A. The purpose -- well, the purpose was to discuss the return to work conditions and 11 agreements as to R.J.'s return to MSC or return to work, how we're going to do that. Q. Did this meeting occur -- I believe it 15 was summer, August, July of -- what was it -- 2002, I believe. A. It was 2002. I got there in July, August. She came back in November; so it was 17 somewhere in between there. I don't remember. I think it was close to like October. Q. October or September of 2002? Yeah. That sounds right. All right. When Ms. Franklin-Mason Q. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb 0. 2 3 Page 89 Okay. And Lucy Austin is an employee of the office of the comptroller? A. That's correct. All right. So what I'm saying is -- never mind. Strike that. 7 5 6 00 v au 9 Now, you said that it was discussed at the meeting that she wanted to be separate or not do financial work or be separate from finances; is that what you stated? A. That she said that? Q. Yes. That at the meeting it was discussed that she wanted to be -- A. There was -- my recollection is that there was some interaction of the whole group, and 11 12 13 14 at one point in time, I remember Marva asking me, could you assign her work that is not financial related. And I said, yes, I can probably come 19 up with something. Q. Okay. All right. But it would be nonfinancial related work? 22 A. That's correct. Th That's correct. Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Page 197 No, because I would have said who is A. 2 that. 0. Okay. It never came up in any of these discussions with agency attorneys or anything else like that, Barry Nelson or anyone else? A. I suspect -- my suspicion is that that was probably supposed to be program manager. I mean, that's who she would report to, but I don't know. Okay. I can't answer that one. All right. We were talking earlier about this meeting that occurred where the HR individual was there, the one at the first meeting -- A. Right. - -- the first meeting when she first the returned to work. A. uh-huh. Q. Was there a discussion at this meeting of transferring Ms. Franklin-Mason? 22 Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 198 There's been discussion on that. I A. think we talked about that at the first meeting. I'm not a hundred percent sure on that, but 4 yeah -- yes, because I remember Marva -- we did talk about that. Q. Did you have any subsequent 7 discussions with anyone at the agency about a transfer? A. Yes. Q. Who did you subsequently discuss the issue with? A. Marva, Chuck Schoen, who is ni, the director of personnel. And I believe I addressed it with the chief of staff, not at that first meeting, but subsequent to that. Q. Let's go off the record for a minute. (Discussion off the record.) MS. MCKINNEY: I'm sorry. Back on the record. BY MS. MCKINNEY: All right. So you said you discussed Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 Execuires Bonitos Services MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979 5 Michael C. Herb Page 199 this with Chuck Schoen? A. And Marva Riley. Marva Riley? A. Uh-huh. And I think we had some discussion at that first meeting, that that was something that the command would look into and in fact they did. Q. Okay. Let me just note for the record that the plaintiff, Ms. Franklin-Mason, has left the conference room due to apparent emotional upset. (Whereupon, Ms. Roxann Franklin-Mason, Mr. Douglas Mason, and Ms. Lynda Cevallos exited the deposition proceedings.) 15 BY MS. MCKINNEY: 0. Okay. What was the substance of your discussions after the meeting concerning the 19 transfer issue? 21 22 A. Well, I made -- I made the point that I felt it was in the best interests of all concerned to -- if we can find a position outside Esquire Deposition Services D.C. - 1-800-441-3376 MD - 1-800-539-6398 VA - 1-800-752-8979